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Thread: Why Enhydra Octopus?

  1. #1

    Default Why Enhydra Octopus?

    Octopus' focus on JDBC is extremely limiting. Dealing with input data of any format - flat file, Excel, XML - from a variety of sources - directory, FTP, email, JMS - seems to be a more realistic requirement. We have been using Babeldoc for a long time, and are happy with it, but there probably are more options out there.


    Sherman

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 1999
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    470

    Default Re:Why Enhydra Octopus?

    We do not have a strong reliance on a specific ETL / EAI tool. We selected Octopus based on its strengths in RDMBS integration but are not restricted to only one tool. We will evaluate Babeldoc to see if it fills additional needs. Thankyou for the recommendation.

    If someone would like to volunteer to contribute an integration wrapper for Babeldoc, that would be great.

    James Dixon
    Chief Geek

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
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    10

    Default Re:Why Enhydra Octopus?

    Have you all done any testing with Octopus? I wonder how it compares to commercial tools.

    One of the issues I have with current ETL tools is that they are pretty much stand alone. They are tough to integrate and don't readily reuse other technology/logic. For instance I might have a domain/business model already developed and instead of taking raw data and putting it into a db, I would like to use the model instead since it contains the business rules/persistance logic already. Maybe just being able to use an existing business rules engine would be enough.

    I think this fits in with your vision. I've posted the following from your Solutions Oriented Approach page

    * Often the solution to a business problem is a process that includes Business Intelligence.
    * Therefore: the Business Intelligence, by itself, is not the solution to the problem.
    * If Business Intelligence is part of the process, the Business Intelligence tools are, unavoidably, also part of the process.
    * A Business Intelligence tool that does not understand processes, or how to be part of one, will be hard to integrate into the solution.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
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    Default How?

    If someone would like to volunteer to contribute an integration wrapper for Babeldoc, that would be great
    How can we can do things like this? Do we have to wait for the first release? :whistle: Any idea when this month it will happen?

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 1999
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    470

    Default Re:How?

    We will be releasing the first code at the end of this month. Just keep whistling. There will not be much, if any, Ocotpus integration in the first drop.

    Our ETL support will be mainly focused on integrating an ETL tool into the process of the platform so that you can schedule and coordinate the ETL activities with other activities, so we will absorb some of the integration pain.

    James Dixon
    pentaho.org

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
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    10

    Default Re:How?

    Thanks James. I am definitely whistling a happy tune.

    I am just trying to gauge where things are at. I have been "selling" this to management. I don't know if you saw any of my previous comments but this project is doing alot of what I was thinking of doing ... or at least wanting to do. I, like the person who posted about metadata, had identified many of the products you are incorporating. So this project and you all's background validates what I was thinking, doing, and presenting. Of course, now management wants to know when.

    I definitely would like to help out/ contribute back. I have helped where I could on Mondrian and JPivot and probably will do more once the code is in a public repository.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 1999
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    470

    Default Re:How?

    Our current roadmap is available on the site. Our first code is available this month. Reporting will be at an official 1.0 release in October, with Analysis in November

    James Dixon
    Chief Geek
    pentaho.org

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
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    10

    Default Re:How?

    Thanks. I've looked at that (multiple times). And what is available from sourceforge. And Googled a bunch. I look forward to July 31. I was hoping to be involved sooner but I'll just have to wait.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 1999
    Posts
    9,727

    Default Re:Why Enhydra Octopus?

    Hi,

    It seems to be a general idea that reporting and analytical tools should be able to fix everything and the kitchen sink as far as data manipulation goes.

    This view is somewhat pushed by the traditional BI vendors as it provides them instant vendor lock in.

    I, (and many others in ETL land) in contrast strongly feel that any calculation or data manipulation worth mentioning should occur in the ETL process and the result should be stored in the data warehouse.

    This practice reduces the risk of different users applying different calculations for the same report.
    The general rule of thumb for me as a data warehouse designer is to push all complex lookups, etc. towards the ETL process.
    NOT only because BI tools often can't handle complex lookups and transformations, but mainly because of consistency.

    Therefor, I would like to convince you to include a powerfull ETL tool that allows users to quickly build and maintain a full data warehouse.
    For me this means including slowly changing dimensions. Copying a couple of tables and hoping that the reporting engine will be able to cope just won't do.

    Please feel free to consider including Kettle.
    Kettle is an ETL tool that turned LGPL about 10 days ago.

    The project page is at: http://kettle.javaforge.com
    More info: http://www.kettle.be

    Pentaho looks like a great tool!

    Kind regards,

    Matt Casters
    Matt Casters, Chief Data Integration
    Pentaho, Open Source Business Intelligence
    http://www.pentaho.org -- mcasters@pentaho.org

    Author of the book Pentaho Kettle Solutions by Wiley. Also available as e-Book and on the Kindle reading applications (iPhone, iPad, Android, Kindle devices, ...)

    Join us on IRC server Freenode.net, channel ##pentaho

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 1999
    Posts
    470

    Default Re:Why Enhydra Octopus?

    Matt,

    I agree with many of your points here.

    Just as we do with Reporting engines, we will try to support multiple ETL tools so that different options are available.

    If you could send us the Java code for how to initiate an ETL activity in Kettle it would help us a lot.

    James Dixon

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