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dmoran
04-24-2007, 10:48 AM
This thread is for discussing changes to the community web site. The goal is to make it as easy as possible to find the information you need and help you be successful with Pentaho.

The look and feel of the community home page http://community.pentaho.org has been changed in order to put more useful information at your fingertips. The new style, with less fluff and more "show me what I need" will make it's way to all of the project and sub-project pages too.

We need feedback from you telling us what you like or don't like, what information you need, what is too hard to find, etc.

Spanky

niru
04-27-2007, 12:47 AM
Hi,

I noticed that noone from Pentaho ever replies to ANY posts on issues we are having with the various real life usage of Pentaho.

If you do not reply, how can users get any support to continue using this product.

IT would be really helpful if the Pentaho technical gurus could look into the forums atleast once in a couple of days to answer these questions facing users.


PErsonally, I have posted atleast 4 or 5 times in the last couple of months I have been evaluating Pentaho and of course there has been maybe one reply from the reporting side.

Thanks for your help in this matter!

Niru

dmoran
04-27-2007, 01:55 PM
Niru,

I took a quick look at your posts and here are my observations:


Failure : Pentaho Standalone Hibernate Initialization - No response - Just posted 5 min before this one.

Pentaho Error_0021 - response by mlowery in less than 1 day

security classes - InMemoryDapUserDetailRoleListImpl - No response - Posted less than a day before this one.

acegi security classes - response by mlowery in less than 1 day

jfreereport long list of dependent libraries - response by taqua in 1.5 hours

JFree_Quad xaction fails 1st post - response by taqua in 30 mins
JFree_Quad xaction fails 2nd post - response by wgorman next day

Mondrian workbench 1st post - response next day by community member
Mondrian workbench 2nd post - response next day by community member

Building a new app with Mondrian and JPivot - no response, posted 4/17

IOException from MondrianFoodMartLoader - looks like you answered your own question

mondrian.jar - response 3 days by community

Where is the Mondrian source download - response 5 days by community

...and now my conclusion:

To use a statement like "...noone from Pentaho ever replies to ANY posts..." throws serious doubt on your credibility and probably has offended mlowery, taqua and wgorman.

And the statement "...there has been maybe one reply from the reporting side..." I think Thomas (taqua) would disagree and actually has the fastest response time to your posts

I have not looked at the quality of your posts but on at least 1 occasion you asked about something that was clearly documented. Maybe that is an issue with your unanswered posts.

This thread that you posted to clearly states that it is for "...discussing changes to the community web site..." whining about replies is clearly off topic and should be in it's own thread.

You have never answered a question or helped a new person in these forums.

Participating in the open source process requires the technical skill to find many of the answers yourself, especially when you are embedding the components in your own application. If you need instant access to answers, and resources, there are support plans available.

Have a nice day,
Doug "Spanky" Moran

niru
04-27-2007, 02:41 PM
Hi Doug

Thanks for taking the time to answer my email. I agree it was an inflammatory email. But I have been working very hard trying to integrate Pentaho into our enterpise app.

I have solved most of the problems mentioned here myself due to lack of response or because the response came too late. I downloaded the entire sources from svn for all the modules.

However, the most recent posts I have made are really serious stuff - i am unable to find the classes though they are in the maven jars. This morning, I actually changed the HibernateUtil to support annotations so one of the problems posted got partially solved.

Also, regarding com.pentaho.system.ProPentahoSystem - is this available only in the Professional edition we may need to purchase. Please advise.

I whined on this forum because I didn't find any other place appropriate enough than this one.

Thanks for all of your help and I promise I will use the expertise I am gaining in Pentaho to help others on the forum soon ( as soon as I get my app initialized and up).

Niru
Thanks a lot for all of your help. Believe me, I will start answering

dhartford
08-14-2007, 11:01 AM
I think there is some validity Niru's comment regarding response time, but my experience has been depending on which forum/thread you post to (and naturally the content/details provided).

For instance, the PDI/Kettle guys have been great, as well as the Reporting threads!

But 'BI Server/Platform' is a little less responsive. It may be possible the BI Server/Platform possibly get overwhelmed with generic questions -- however, that does not make it excusable, but a possible problem that needs a solution.

The 'Feature Request' just seems like it goes to /dev/null. It also seems to not make much sense as there are domain-specific threads (PDI, report, etc) if you know what you are asking for in the Feature Request.

Edit: Although this thread is titled Community Web Site, the thread should help communicating with the Community which the above is a problem.

As for the Community Web Site directly (as well as observations in the threads) some breakup between 'Project' such as Reporting, PDI/Kettle, OLAP, etc and 'Project on BI Platform' may be helpful as requires different knowledge/skillsets. The generic BI Platform is great for installation and generic abilities, but not for problems with a project running on the BI Platform (AJAX Params for Reporting, XACTION designing for Reporting, XACTION design for PDI/Kettle, etc).

my two coppers,
-D

bugg_tb
08-14-2007, 11:19 AM
I'll second that,

I've seen many posts with people moaning about response times but in all Taqua, Ingo and Matt etc have been a fantastic help to me getting my head round this system. 3 months ago I'd not really touched excel so data warehousing , data analysis etc seemed along way off, I've still got bags to learn, I don't really understand how all this stuff is generated, but at least now I can write reports, generate charts and so on.

Yes we would all like all our questions answered but sometime like some of mine they're just pain dumb, sometime people don't include enough information and sometime they're just unanswerable. But on the whole the support is great even to us that haven't yet bought any, and hopefully in a short while us relative newcomers will be able to answer the newbie questions leaving the Pro's to tackle the harder ones and improve the software.

Thanks guys for a fantastic product and keep up the good work.

Toms

dmoran
08-15-2007, 04:26 PM
I think there is some validity Niru's comment regarding response time, but my experience has been depending on which forum/thread you post to (and naturally the content/details provided).
For instance, the PDI/Kettle guys have been great, as well as the Reporting threads!
But 'BI Server/Platform' is a little less responsive. It may be possible the BI Server/Platform possibly get overwhelmed with generic questions -- however, that does not make it excusable, but a possible problem that needs a solution.

This is a tough issue to comment on without sounding defensive or making excuses so I usually try to avoid them - although I didn't do a very good job avoiding it at the beginning of this thread :eek: - but you make a good point and I think we can have a good discussion here.

Response time is also effected by developer workload, usually drops off just before a release and picks up right after. Their priority is: tech support, development and then forums. We try to answer posts that look like bugs as soon as possible but, with very limited time and resources, balancing this is a big challenge.

I think one of the bigger issues with the BI Server/Platform forum specifically is that it does get overwhelming not just by the volume of questions but the massive range of questions - many of which require very specific knowledge about embedded technology like Acegi, database specific drivers, application servers, etc. The platform itself is technology that is used to build other applications so many times it is being used in ways we haven't thought of. Sometimes you look at a post and don't know where to start or you know it will take half a day to set up an environment and human nature (or is that geek nature) is to wait and see if someone else jumps in. A few days go by and it disappears in the volume of new posts. Meanwhile you answered a bunch of other posts and feel like you did good but someone is disappointed.

BTW - An interesting thing happened when we first started the forums. We answered posts very quickly, almost as fast as they came in. A half a year later we were hearing that there was no community around Pentaho, only the Pentaho people were answering in the forums and the community has no voice. We decided to wait a couple days before answering non bug related posts or RTFM kind of questions and quickly, people like Nic Guzaldo stepped up and started answering. So - it is sometimes hard to decide what we should be answering and what the community should be responsible for. I'm sure there are a few opinions on this topic.

Ok - so that was a little excuse and a little history, how to make it better? - maybe breaking up the platform forum into a couple smaller forums can let people with specific skills focus on monitoring a smaller number of posts. The down side is, with more forums it's harder for new people to know where to find stuff and things get posted in the wrong place and are still missed. Again it's a balancing act - I'm open to suggestions on how to slice it. There may be a way to highlight unanswered forum threads that are x days old. I'm not sure if the forum software handles this but there may be an open source BI/Reporting tool that can help us out - :rolleyes:.


The 'Feature Request' just seems like it goes to /dev/null. It also seems to not make much sense as there are domain-specific threads (PDI, report, etc) if you know what you are asking for in the Feature Request.

You got us on this one :o - Although the product guys do go through that forum when coming up with requirements or when updating the road map, they don't usually comment. I agree, without any feedback, the forum thread is not very useful. Maybe we should close that forum, if people need to discuss an idea for a new feature - the domain forum, as you suggested, is a good place to go. We can use JIRA for feature requests and it can track requests by product much better than the forums. JIRA also gives community members ability to vote for a feature. I need to change some fields in JIRA to make this easier. What do you think? The feedback may not come back much faster, but at least it will be tracked and easier to report and comment on.


As for the Community Web Site directly (as well as observations in the threads) some breakup between 'Project' such as Reporting, PDI/Kettle, OLAP, etc and 'Project on BI Platform' may be helpful as requires different knowledge/skillsets. The generic BI Platform is great for installation and generic abilities, but not for problems with a project running on the BI Platform (AJAX Params for Reporting, XACTION designing for Reporting, XACTION design for PDI/Kettle, etc).

This is actually being worked on. The reporting site will be the first to get the upgrade and the sub projects like the report engine and it's libraries will be represented for people only interested in this level of detail. It should be ready next week. The Platform site is also in dire need of updating and should be next. Again - it's time and resources.

Thanks for your input, I don't always like what I hear but I appreciate the input and am glad that you think enough of the project to take time to make suggestions.

Doug

Nathan
08-17-2007, 07:49 AM
Maybe we could have a "Getting Started with Pentaho" forum. Pentaho is such a multi-faceted suite of programs, it is kind of hard to know where to dive in for a new person.

There are a couple of other things I think would help new Pentaho users. There is a lot of good tutorial stuff on the wiki, but I don't see an obvious link from Pentaho.com that takes you there. Instead people are pointed to the forums, so we post our basic questions here that might have been answered in the wiki. I also think it would be nice if the wiki were organized along the same six categories as the products link on the Pentaho home page. When I'm looking for Pentaho Analysis stuff on the wiki, I don't know where to find it.

Finally, I think it would be great if the report designer came with a sample .report file so people could see what a finished report in the report designer would look like.

fconsult
10-23-2007, 10:29 AM
Maybe, there could be a Panic Button (like the one here http://www.panicbutton.org.uk/) to get support. It could give general directions on how to post help needed to Pentaho Forums, what data to send, etc. It could evolve to an automated posting tool: it would gather all that is important to a certain Pentaho project and generate a report, with screenshots et al., where the user would have only to decide to post or not (and give apropriate username/password).

I can see it would scale enormously the amount of RTFM issues posted, but it could help novice as well as seasoned Pentaho users. Maybe, if there where separeted forums - support one and "philosofic" one - that would be more manangeable. The Pentaho Panic Button would send to support forum only. There, the support request could be tagged (RTFM, Reporting, Data Base access, etc.) by community members and answered or not (sometimes you know where people can find an answer, just don't have the time to help). The Data Mining Pentaho Solution could be plugged there to generate a Knowledge Base and automatically tag the most probable solution/forum based on the report sent.

Over the time, all of this, along with the natural evolution of Pentaho, may end up reducing the amount of help needed and forums would naturally return to its philosofic-only nature, support being totally available on docs, sites, etc.

Mine's "just the already-mentioned couple of coppers".