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Thread: What image pentaho is trying to project - Observation from a new visitor

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    7

    Unhappy What image pentaho is trying to project - Observation from a new visitor

    Hi,

    I come to the Pentaho site to check out this “world’s most popular open source BI suite”, but I like to say that there are 2 issues that Pentaho is projecting an image that I don’t like.

    Sorry if the following seems to be venting. You may be indifference with these issues any more, but it jus make me uncomfortable as a new visitor. The solo purpose for this message is that I hope that Pentaho gets better and better.

    The first issue is, the download page is broken:

    ------------------------------------------------------------



    ERROR

    The requested URL could not be retrieved

    While trying to process the request:
    POST /download/eval_builder.php?action=begin HTTP/1.1Host: www.pentaho.orgUser-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.8.1.6) Gecko/20070725 Firefox/2.0.0.6Accept: text/xml,application/xml,application/xhtml+xml,text/html;q=0.9,text/plain;q=0.8,image/png,*/*;q=0.5Accept-Language: en-us,zh;q=0.5Accept-Encoding: gzip,deflateAccept-Charset: ISO-8859-1,utf-8;q=0.7,*;q=0.7Keep-Alive: 300Proxy-Connection: keep-aliveReferer: http://www.pentaho.org/download/Cookie: __utmz=55785642.1190732381.2.2.utmccn=(referral)|utmcsr=pentaho.com|utmcct=/|utmcmd=referral; __utmb=55785642; __utma=55785642.452134914.1190728088.1190728088.1190732381.2; __utmc=55785642; cookietest=pentahoPragma: no-cacheCache-Control: no-cache The following error was encountered:
    • Invalid Request
    ------------------------------------------------------------



    I did find the right place to download, but this problem, seems to me, has been at least exits for 2 weeks. The projected image is very bad here, if pentaho can’t even take care of its own web download page, which would be the most popular than any other pages, how can people believe that pentaho can take care of their customers seriously?

    The second issue is, that, the demo page says that there are “recorded demonstrations, case studies and / or white papers”. But what I hated most is the hassle in order to gain access to it. Why do I have to register just in order to see a demo? Why should I tolerate salesman knocking on my door? This really reminds me the “gain money fast” scheme, they kept saying how fabulous it is, but kept hiding how it works until you pay.

    Sorry again about the venting. Again, the solo purpose for this message is that I hope that Pentaho gets better and better.

    Thanks

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    7

    Default

    Oops, wrong forum, sorry, please move it to "About Pentaho"


    thx

  3. #3

    Default

    You are not the only one with this suggestion/gripe.

    The download 'wizard' and the 'demo/recorded/case' both require information (name, address, e-mail, phone?) that anyone wanting to check out an open-source project just doesn't want to deal with.

    *Download - click link, download files.

    *Demo/recorded presentation page - list available presentations, click and view. (I wanted to show someone, so filled in my information with the comment along the lines of 'this should not be needed', so trying to provide feedback there as well).

    **Demo/recorded presentation I have less issues with - these are not 'open source' and would be fine if it is really deemed necessary to request the information before getting access.

    *Need more information? Fill out name, address, e-mail, phone.

    Luckily, I checked out Pentaho before the 'download wizard'. 99% confident that as soon as I would have hit that download wizard, I would never have looked at the project again. Sorry if it seems harsh or unreasonable, but that's how it is -- if open source, be open source and easily available.

    edit, I recognize this is not my first post about the subject:
    http://forums.pentaho.org/showthread.php?t=53933

    and yes, I continue to go through http://sourceforge.net/projects/pentaho to download the open source packages of Pentaho.
    Last edited by dhartford; 09-25-2007 at 02:36 PM.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    7

    Default

    I actually brought this up to Pentaho employees when I was in Orlando for training over the summer, and they had no excuses why this is even as it is.

    I just think that this is a terrible idea, and one that wasn't really very well thought out.

    I am realistically curious as to whether you would even get decent information returned from that form? I just tend to fill it with crap just to get through to where I need to be.

    If it wasn't for the documentation that I check on from time to time, I wouldn't ever use the "Wizard", and just go straight to Sourceforge.

  5. #5
    dmoran Guest

    Default

    xpt,

    Sorry you are having trouble with the evaluation wizard. Our web team is trying to recreate the issue. It may have something to do with your proxy settings. Please give us a little more information like what proxy you are using and what URL you were hitting. We have not had any other reports of this not working over the past two weeks so thanks for the heads up.

    As for the second issue, we support the technical open source savvy people through the community web site - http://community.pentaho.org. The binary builds are available for download from SourceForge. Nightly builds are available via FTP server. Source code is available from the subversion server. Read only access to the Documetation wiki, forums and bug tracking systems are all available without login. In this mode, people can help themselves with minimal or no interaction from Pentaho.

    Tools like the evaluation wizard, recorded demonstrations and case studies need to be maintained and updated as new releases come out. These sales tools are tailored for the traditional BI software user who is looking for a corporate entity, a person that they can talk with and an easier evaluation experience. We feel that knowing a little about the person using these resources is not unreasonable.

    Thank you for the feedback, you have valid concerns. However, I feel that using phrases like: "hassle", "...tolerate salesman knocking on my door..." and "...gain money fast scheme..." are a little offensive, especially to the sales and marketing guys. When you add up the value of the products available to you for free (or for the price of answering less than 10 questions) I don't understand why you would even feel the need to vent. You must not have ever gone through a traditional BI sales cycle

    So - how do we make it better? Based on your post, dhartford's comment and the thread he references, we looked at how we were directing people on the site and agree that if you don't want or need to go through the evaluation wizard, it is difficult to find where the downloads are actually posted. We have already started to modify the site to point out the SourceForge location, and not have all the download links on the community page point to the download wizard.

    Doug Moran
    Pentaho Community Connection

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    10

    Default Proxy issue - resolution / SourceForge.net linking

    xpt and others,

    Our web team has been working on resolving the Error... message, which as far as we can tell is caused by proxy server issue on the client / user side.

    We are now able detect this specific proxy issue so the user can be sent to a different page that gives a list of Pentaho projects on SourceForge.net. This same page is now referenced at the top of the Download Wizard (http://community.pentaho.org/sourceforge/). This will allow people that want to avoid our form to go directly to our projects on SourceForge to download the products (as khagel mentioned).

    To help us test it, can you (xpt) hit the Download Wizard (http://www.pentaho.org/download) again to see if you still get the error that would be great?

    As Doug mentioned, the form in the wizard is a way for us to learn a little about who’s using our software (This is a common practice by many commercial open source projects). At no time will anyone filling out the form be contacted by Pentaho (email / or directly) unless they have specifically asked to be contacted.

    I hope this helps resolve the issue and put everyone at ease regarding the form.

    Regards,

    Wes Brown
    Community Advocate

  7. #7

    Default

    Thanks for replying Doug! Your comment below for the recorded demonstrations and case studies is valid and reasonable, and I appreciate the company taking our feedback regarding the 'download wizard'.

    Part of open-source is community, and having the avenue for the 'traditional BI Software user' for the recorded demos and case studies is great. Modifying the avenue for the first-time user experience to download the software will avoid deterring the '(non?) traditional open source user'. The more people that join Pentaho community, the better!

    Quote Originally Posted by dmoran View Post
    Tools like the evaluation wizard, recorded demonstrations and case studies need to be maintained and updated as new releases come out. These sales tools are tailored for the traditional BI software user who is looking for a corporate entity, a person that they can talk with and an easier evaluation experience. We feel that knowing a little about the person using these resources is not unreasonable.
    The link or proxy issue is unfortunate, I have not experienced this issue but I'm sure it would be frustrating.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    7

    Default

    Thanks everybody who replied. I'm very sorry about the venting. On seeing the positive responds to my negative venting, I know I shouldn't have done that. No excuse, but I was very frustrated, not because of the downloading (found the right place to download within several minutes), but because I had a very tight schedule, but at the end of day, I found I can't get pentaho installed because of many many reasons, the major one being the limitation of my organization on us using the computer...

    I've just checked the download wizard, it is working fine now. Thanks!

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