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Thread: Spam on this channel

  1. #1
    Matt Casters Guest

    Default Spam on this channel

    Dear Kettle-developers,

    I was quite dismayed to see Spam on this google groups channel.
    I'm not saying that Keira Nightly isn't a nice girl, but I think it's better to keep messages on-topic.

    That's why it's perhaps better to move our developer discussions to a more private forum.
    To avoid schisms between what we as developers think and what others need, it came to my mind we might want to make it invitation only and invite partners, paying customers etc as well to the forum.
    Keeping in touch with what corporations want and need is what Kettle's always been about and I'm totally committed to keep it that way.
    At this moment, JIRA has unfortunately grown a bit too fast to serve as a ranking system for new featues or to detect urgently required bug fixes.
    As a side effect, perhaps we can make it so that all active developers, once registered, would be able to get license keys to the extra "enterprise / 2.0" Pentaho software features.

    Let me know what you all think!

    All the best,
    Matt
    ____________________________________________
    Matt Casters
    Chief Data Integration - Kettle founder
    Pentaho, Open Source Business Intelligence
    http://www.pentaho.org -- mcasters (AT) pentaho (DOT) org
    Tel. +32 (0) 486 97 29 37

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  2. #2
    DEinspanjer Guest

    Default Re: Spam on this channel

    All of this sounds great to me.

    On Sep 6, 6:03

  3. #3
    Leif Arne Storset Guest

    Default Spam on this channel

    (The following is a personal opinion and not the official opinion of
    HISP International.)

    On Sat, Sep 6, 2008 at 12:03, Matt Casters <mcasters (AT) pentaho (DOT) org> wrote:
    > I was quite dismayed to see Spam on this google groups channel.
    > I'm not saying that Keira Nightly isn't a nice girl, but I think it's better to keep messages on-topic.
    >
    > That's why it's perhaps better to move our developer discussions to a more private forum.
    > To avoid schisms between what we as developers think and what others need, it came to my mind we might want to make it invitation only and invite partners, paying customers etc as well to the forum.


    Thanks, Matt, for taking the spam problem seriously! However, I'm a
    bit worried about such moves to make Kettle discussions more private.
    I'm using Kettle in an open-source project that maintains a health
    information system for developing countries (HISP International,
    www.hisp.info). I appreciate the opportunity to hear what the core
    developers are thinking about Kettle's future and current important
    issues. We are investigating using Kettle more, and I have made my own
    very small patches to the Kettle code.

    I assume (and hope) that when Matt Casters speaks of inviting only
    "partners, paying customers etc", that superusers like me still would
    be welcome. Still, I feel that an invitation-only model would be
    overly exclusionary for an open-source project.

    As it is, prospective users already have to request an invitation. If
    we are trying to combat spam and automated applications, perhaps the
    question in the invitation request could be modified? (I don't
    remember what the question is currently.) If the applicant's answer is
    gibberish, the maintainer rejects him or her. This model works for a
    group that I run.

    If the core developers wish to have a more intimate discussion with
    select partners and paying customers, perhaps a new forum could be
    created for this.

    Best regards,

    Leif Storset

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  4. #4
    Matt Casters Guest

    Default Re: Spam on this channel

    Thanks for your honest comments Leif!

    Now, let me be honest as well. :-)

    It's true that I've had to change this subscription model to "invitation only", but I'm still allowing all possible users to subscribe.
    I can't make the distinction between an interested would-be developer and a spammer from accross the globe.

    > I assume (and hope) that when Matt Casters speaks of inviting only
    > "partners, paying customers etc", that superusers like me still would
    > be welcome.


    I would think not.

    > Still, I feel that an invitation-only model would be
    > overly exclusionary for an open-source project.


    Why do you think so? We already have a very succesful, very active and open forum where users can ask questions.
    It's not like we're closing anything down, on the contrary, I'm proposing to improve upon the current offering.

    > issues. We are investigating using Kettle more, and I have made my own
    > very small patches to the Kettle code.


    Great, but to put it bluntly, unless you care to give back to the project, it doesn't affect or involve our Kettle community in any possible way.
    In my obviously not so humble opinion, recognizing you as a developer when in fact you're not, would not be the right way to go.
    I'm interesting in hearing why you think otherwise.

    > If the core developers wish to have a more intimate discussion with
    > select partners and paying customers, perhaps a new forum could be
    > created for this.


    That is exactly what I'm proposing, yes.

    Listen, I'm sure that some of you would feel bad about people being put into some sort of classification or attribution system.
    Then again, myself and a number of people at Pentaho see a lot of value in doing exactly that.
    Once you start doing that, it might even be interesting to make that kind of recognition public so that other open source projects know about it.
    The whole discussion around that, the whole process and even these mails are as open as can be, and we most certainly welcome input and comments.

    But that doesn't change the fact that if you're not a contributor or developer, you're just not going to have the same influence in the project. (and I'm sure this goes for most if not all open source projects)

    Take care,

    Matt


    On Wednesday 10 September 2008 01:05:30 Leif Arne Storset wrote:
    >
    > (The following is a personal opinion and not the official opinion of
    > HISP International.)
    >
    > On Sat, Sep 6, 2008 at 12:03, Matt Casters <mcasters (AT) pentaho (DOT) org> wrote:
    > > I was quite dismayed to see Spam on this google groups channel.
    > > I'm not saying that Keira Nightly isn't a nice girl, but I think it's better to keep messages on-topic.
    > >
    > > That's why it's perhaps better to move our developer discussions to a more private forum.
    > > To avoid schisms between what we as developers think and what others need, it came to my mind we might want to make it invitation only and invite partners, paying customers etc as well to the forum.

    >
    > Thanks, Matt, for taking the spam problem seriously! However, I'm a
    > bit worried about such moves to make Kettle discussions more private.
    > I'm using Kettle in an open-source project that maintains a health
    > information system for developing countries (HISP International,
    > www.hisp.info). I appreciate the opportunity to hear what the core
    > developers are thinking about Kettle's future and current important
    > issues. We are investigating using Kettle more, and I have made my own
    > very small patches to the Kettle code.
    >
    > I assume (and hope) that when Matt Casters speaks of inviting only
    > "partners, paying customers etc", that superusers like me still would
    > be welcome. Still, I feel that an invitation-only model would be
    > overly exclusionary for an open-source project.
    >
    > As it is, prospective users already have to request an invitation. If
    > we are trying to combat spam and automated applications, perhaps the
    > question in the invitation request could be modified? (I don't
    > remember what the question is currently.) If the applicant's answer is
    > gibberish, the maintainer rejects him or her. This model works for a
    > group that I run.
    >
    > If the core developers wish to have a more intimate discussion with
    > select partners and paying customers, perhaps a new forum could be
    > created for this.
    >
    > Best regards,
    >
    > Leif Storset
    >
    > >

    >
    >




    --
    Matt
    ____________________________________________
    Matt Casters
    Chief Data Integration - Kettle founder
    Pentaho, Open Source Business Intelligence
    http://www.pentaho.org -- mcasters (AT) pentaho (DOT) org
    Tel. +32 (0) 486 97 29 37

    --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
    You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "kettle-developers" group.
    To post to this group, send email to kettle-developers (AT) googlegroups (DOT) com
    To unsubscribe from this group, send email to kettle-developers+unsubscribe (AT) googlegroups (DOT) com
    For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/kettle-developers?hl=en
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  5. #5
    Leif Arne Storset Guest

    Default Re: Spam on this channel

    Matt,

    Thanks for your comprehensive reply! I'm sure many other lurkers like
    me will appreciate the clarifications you provided.

    I am not looking for influence at this point, only information. If the
    remaining open forums will keep us in the loop about the focus of the
    developers and the future of Kettle, then that is perfectly fine. If I
    read your reply correctly and that is the case, the closing of this
    mailing list won't be a major issue.

    Thanks again for taking the time to respond, and good luck with all
    your efforts!

    All the best,

    Leif

    On Wed, Sep 10, 2008 at 12:07, Matt Casters <mcasters (AT) pentaho (DOT) org> wrote:
    >
    >
    > Thanks for your honest comments Leif!
    >
    > Now, let me be honest as well. :-)
    >
    > It's true that I've had to change this subscription model to "invitation only", but I'm still allowing all possible users to subscribe.
    > I can't make the distinction between an interested would-be developer and a spammer from accross the globe.
    >
    >> I assume (and hope) that when Matt Casters speaks of inviting only
    >> "partners, paying customers etc", that superusers like me still would
    >> be welcome.

    >
    > I would think not.
    >
    >> Still, I feel that an invitation-only model would be
    >> overly exclusionary for an open-source project.

    >
    > Why do you think so? We already have a very succesful, very active and open forum where users can ask questions.
    > It's not like we're closing anything down, on the contrary, I'm proposing to improve upon the current offering.
    >
    >> issues. We are investigating using Kettle more, and I have made my own
    >> very small patches to the Kettle code.

    >
    > Great, but to put it bluntly, unless you care to give back to the project, it doesn't affect or involve our Kettle community in any possible way.
    > In my obviously not so humble opinion, recognizing you as a developer when in fact you're not, would not be the right way to go.
    > I'm interesting in hearing why you think otherwise.
    >
    >> If the core developers wish to have a more intimate discussion with
    >> select partners and paying customers, perhaps a new forum could be
    >> created for this.

    >
    > That is exactly what I'm proposing, yes.
    >
    > Listen, I'm sure that some of you would feel bad about people being put into some sort of classification or attribution system.
    > Then again, myself and a number of people at Pentaho see a lot of value in doing exactly that.
    > Once you start doing that, it might even be interesting to make that kind of recognition public so that other open source projects know about it.
    > The whole discussion around that, the whole process and even these mails are as open as can be, and we most certainly welcome input and comments.
    >
    > But that doesn't change the fact that if you're not a contributor or developer, you're just not going to have the same influence in the project. (and I'm sure this goes for most if not all open source projects)
    >
    > Take care,
    >
    > Matt
    >
    >
    > On Wednesday 10 September 2008 01:05:30 Leif Arne Storset wrote:
    >>
    >> (The following is a personal opinion and not the official opinion of
    >> HISP International.)
    >>
    >> On Sat, Sep 6, 2008 at 12:03, Matt Casters <mcasters (AT) pentaho (DOT) org> wrote:
    >> > I was quite dismayed to see Spam on this google groups channel.
    >> > I'm not saying that Keira Nightly isn't a nice girl, but I think it's better to keep messages on-topic.
    >> >
    >> > That's why it's perhaps better to move our developer discussions to a more private forum.
    >> > To avoid schisms between what we as developers think and what others need, it came to my mind we might want to make it invitation only and invite partners, paying customers etc as well to the forum.

    >>
    >> Thanks, Matt, for taking the spam problem seriously! However, I'm a
    >> bit worried about such moves to make Kettle discussions more private.
    >> I'm using Kettle in an open-source project that maintains a health
    >> information system for developing countries (HISP International,
    >> www.hisp.info). I appreciate the opportunity to hear what the core
    >> developers are thinking about Kettle's future and current important
    >> issues. We are investigating using Kettle more, and I have made my own
    >> very small patches to the Kettle code.
    >>
    >> I assume (and hope) that when Matt Casters speaks of inviting only
    >> "partners, paying customers etc", that superusers like me still would
    >> be welcome. Still, I feel that an invitation-only model would be
    >> overly exclusionary for an open-source project.
    >>
    >> As it is, prospective users already have to request an invitation. If
    >> we are trying to combat spam and automated applications, perhaps the
    >> question in the invitation request could be modified? (I don't
    >> remember what the question is currently.) If the applicant's answer is
    >> gibberish, the maintainer rejects him or her. This model works for a
    >> group that I run.
    >>
    >> If the core developers wish to have a more intimate discussion with
    >> select partners and paying customers, perhaps a new forum could be
    >> created for this.
    >>
    >> Best regards,
    >>
    >> Leif Storset
    >>
    >> >

    >>
    >>

    >
    >
    >
    > --
    > Matt
    > ____________________________________________
    > Matt Casters
    > Chief Data Integration - Kettle founder
    > Pentaho, Open Source Business Intelligence
    > http://www.pentaho.org -- mcasters (AT) pentaho (DOT) org
    > Tel. +32 (0) 486 97 29 37
    >
    > >

    >


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  6. #6
    Matt Casters Guest

    Default Re: Spam on this channel

    On Wednesday 10 September 2008 12:40:39 Leif Arne Storset wrote:
    > I am not looking for influence at this point, only information. If the
    > remaining open forums will keep us in the loop about the focus of the
    > developers and the future of Kettle, then that is perfectly fine. If I
    > read your reply correctly and that is the case, the closing of this
    > mailing list won't be a major issue.


    Well, to be honest, the roadmap information is something we should update more often.
    Then again, the homepage at the moment does list in general where we're heading for.

    All the best,

    Matt
    ____________________________________________
    Matt Casters
    Chief Data Integration - Kettle founder
    Pentaho, Open Source Business Intelligence
    http://www.pentaho.org -- mcasters (AT) pentaho (DOT) org
    Tel. +32 (0) 486 97 29 37

    --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
    You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "kettle-developers" group.
    To post to this group, send email to kettle-developers (AT) googlegroups (DOT) com
    To unsubscribe from this group, send email to kettle-developers+unsubscribe (AT) googlegroups (DOT) com
    For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/kettle-developers?hl=en
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