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Thread: Deadline Pentaho PDI 4.0

  1. #1
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  2. #2
    Robert Wintner Guest

    Default Deadline Pentaho PDI 4.0

    Hi

    Does anybody know when is the deadline for checking in bugfixes into PDI 4.0 to be in the official release?

    Where can I look up such info usually? Cannon find it at JIRA.

    Thanks
    Robert

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  3. #3
    Matt Casters Guest

    Default Re: Deadline Pentaho PDI 4.0

    I just had a chat with the Pentaho development manager and we're bound to call in effect a code-freeze in a week to 10 days tops.
    That should be followed by a lot of build activity and the release of 4.0-stable CE, EE, Agile BI as well as the 3.6 series of PRD, BI server, etc.

    So make sure to put in your favorite bug fix before then!

    4.0-RC1 (+BI Server 3.6-RC1, PRD 3.6-RC1, PME-3.6-RC1, etc) artifacts are uploaded to Sourceforge in the mean time so make sure to test drive this release and help us squash as many bugs as possible. If you see anything blocking or critical: JIRA those ASAP!

    Thanks for all your help!

    Cheers,
    Matt
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    Matt Casters <mcasters (AT) pentaho (DOT) org>
    Chief Data Integration
    Fonteinstraat 70, 9400 OKEGEM - Belgium - Cell : +32 486 97 29 37
    Pentaho : The Commercial Open Source Alternative for Business Intelligence

    On Tuesday 11 May 2010 20:47:37 Robert Wintner wrote:
    > Hi
    >
    > Does anybody know when is the deadline for checking in bugfixes into PDI 4.0 to be in the official release?
    >
    > Where can I look up such info usually? Cannon find it at JIRA.
    >
    > Thanks
    > Robert
    >
    >


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  4. #4
    Robert Wintner Guest

    Default Re: Deadline Pentaho PDI 4.0

    Can you give a date?
    Where can I find the date in the web?

    R.


    Am 12.05.2010 um 19:47 schrieb Matt Casters:

    >
    > I just had a chat with the Pentaho development manager and we're bound to call in effect a code-freeze in a week to 10 days tops.
    > That should be followed by a lot of build activity and the release of 4.0-stable CE, EE, Agile BI as well as the 3.6 series of PRD, BI server, etc.
    >
    > So make sure to put in your favorite bug fix before then!
    >
    > 4.0-RC1 (+BI Server 3.6-RC1, PRD 3.6-RC1, PME-3.6-RC1, etc) artifacts are uploaded to Sourceforge in the mean time so make sure to test drive this release and help us squash as many bugs as possible. If you see anything blocking or critical: JIRA those ASAP!
    >
    > Thanks for all your help!
    >
    > Cheers,
    > Matt
    > --
    > Matt Casters <mcasters (AT) pentaho (DOT) org>
    > Chief Data Integration
    > Fonteinstraat 70, 9400 OKEGEM - Belgium - Cell : +32 486 97 29 37
    > Pentaho : The Commercial Open Source Alternative for Business Intelligence
    >
    > On Tuesday 11 May 2010 20:47:37 Robert Wintner wrote:
    >> Hi
    >>
    >> Does anybody know when is the deadline for checking in bugfixes into PDI 4.0 to be in the official release?
    >>
    >> Where can I look up such info usually? Cannon find it at JIRA.
    >>
    >> Thanks
    >> Robert
    >>
    >>

    >
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    >


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  5. #5
    Nicholas Goodman Guest

    Default Re: Deadline Pentaho PDI 4.0

    On May 12, 2010, at 10:47 AM, Matt Casters wrote:

    > I just had a chat with the Pentaho development manager and we're bound to call in effect a code-freeze in a week to 10 days tops.
    > That should be followed by a lot of build activity and the release of 4.0-stable CE, EE, Agile BI as well as the 3.6 series of PRD, BI server, etc.


    That seems a bit short for an RC, yes? Obviously peeps on this list are able to build and have been testing 4.0 for a while. If my math is correct, 9-13 days (posted 5/10) is pretty optimistic for the community/customers to download PDI RC, install it, upgrade their stuff, find and report bugs, pentaho/this list to receive them, fix and verify them.

    Did I misunderstand (I'm kind of a bone head, sometimes)? Could the entire RC phase for PDI 4.0 be as short as 9 days or is the code freeze going to be for a second RC?

    Nick

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  6. #6
    Matt Casters Guest

    Default Re: Deadline Pentaho PDI 4.0

    > Can you give a date?
    > 9-13 days ... yada yada ... that seems a bit short for an RC, yes?


    Let me answer both questions in one go. One the one hand we have someone that wants us to clearly time-box the stable release and on the other hand we have someone that clearly does NOT want that.

    Well, the answer is somewhere in between. No, I can't give you guys a date.. As per usual, when the release is done it's done. If major issues are found we will probably delay the stable release for a few weeks.

    Important for Pentaho is that 4.0-RC1 already *is* a supported release. It's a bit ironic that customers and prospects have been test-driving the EE version of PDI even longer than most of our community. That is not because of lacking builds but because of the success of the 4.0 EE Preview release and the marketing that it came with.

    Whatever the case, given the lengthy development time that we took for 4.0 and the QA processes that are in place now, the numerous QA days and with the full-time testers on board we have a high degree of confidence that we'll be ready in a few weeks.

    > Did I misunderstand (I'm kind of a bone head, sometimes)? Could the entire RC phase for PDI 4.0 be as short as 9 days or is the code freeze going to be for a second RC?


    As I announced a few weeks ago, we already are in code freeze. New features are not to go in, only bug fixes. In another few weeks we'll probably announce a temporary lock-down of the PDI repository to make sure that we end up with something stable. At that point only critical bug fixes will go in. Once the stable builds are out we'll be working on 4.1 in trunk.

    Cheers,
    Matt
    --
    Matt Casters <mcasters (AT) pentaho (DOT) org>
    Chief Data Integration
    Fonteinstraat 70, 9400 OKEGEM - Belgium - Cell : +32 486 97 29 37
    Pentaho : The Commercial Open Source Alternative for Business Intelligence

    On Wednesday 12 May 2010 20:15:17 Nicholas Goodman wrote:
    >
    > On May 12, 2010, at 10:47 AM, Matt Casters wrote:
    >
    > > I just had a chat with the Pentaho development manager and we're bound to call in effect a code-freeze in a week to 10 days tops.
    > > That should be followed by a lot of build activity and the release of 4..0-stable CE, EE, Agile BI as well as the 3.6 series of PRD, BI server, etc..

    >
    > That seems a bit short for an RC, yes? Obviously peeps on this list are able to build and have been testing 4.0 for a while. If my math is correct, 9-13 days (posted 5/10) is pretty optimistic for the community/customers to download PDI RC, install it, upgrade their stuff, find and report bugs, pentaho/this list to receive them, fix and verify them.
    >
    > Did I misunderstand (I'm kind of a bone head, sometimes)? Could the entire RC phase for PDI 4.0 be as short as 9 days or is the code freeze going to be for a second RC?
    >
    > Nick
    >
    >


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  7. #7
    Nicholas Goodman Guest

    Default Re: Deadline Pentaho PDI 4.0

    On May 12, 2010, at 11:38 AM, Matt Casters wrote:

    > As I announced a few weeks ago, we already are in code freeze. New features are not to go in, only bug fixes. In another few weeks we'll probably announce a temporary lock-down of the PDI repository to make sure that we end up with something stable. At that point only critical bug fixes will go in.


    Thanks Matt - your emailed answered all my questions. Even after the code freeze for everybody (ie, people on this email list) Pentaho will still take some time to squash critical bugs while building up to a "stable release" for GA. A sort of Pentaho only RC 1.5?

    My original assertion continues to be correct, yes? The entire RC phase is short - you're saying that because Pentaho did a Preview release (which like you mentioned was for prospects/EE custs) the RC period became much shorter?

    So... in the future, users on this list should regard any "Preview Release" as the actual start of the Release Candidate process (which again, like you said, you announced weeks back with no new features, only bug fixes, etc).. Noted.

    Nick
    PS - I have "no new features" to go in, btw. So I am an unbiased observer on this process.

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  8. #8
    Matt Casters Guest

    Default Re: Deadline Pentaho PDI 4.0

    To be honest Nick, relatively speaking at least, very few people actually download and use a release candidate.
    RC1 is currently at 228 downloads. Compared to the +70k of 3.2.0 that's very little indeed.

    I've written about this problem before. Even if you would do another 5 milestones and release candidates you would still have a large group of your prime target audience you would miss, simply because they prefer not to use RC/Beta software.

    Fortunately, like I mentioned, things have indeed changed a lot for the better compared to say version 3.0.
    Not only do we have a larger set of unit tests, we've had the luxury of a larger team to work on 4.0 and to test full time.
    It's also very fortunate that nothing radical was changed in the core transformation and job engines of Kettle. That leads to a high level of confidence that 4.0 will be 100% backward compatible on the metadata level (your ktr/kjb).
    Finally, most important features that have been added to 4.0 have been out in a milestone for more than 4-5 months already.

    In short, I really don't think that needlessly delaying for another month or two is going to buy us a lot, but if we have to we'll do so.

    Cheers,
    Matt

    --
    Matt Casters <mcasters (AT) pentaho (DOT) org>
    Chief Data Integration
    Fonteinstraat 70, 9400 OKEGEM - Belgium - Cell : +32 486 97 29 37
    Pentaho : The Commercial Open Source Alternative for Business Intelligence

    On Wednesday 12 May 2010 21:33:26 Nicholas Goodman wrote:
    > On May 12, 2010, at 11:38 AM, Matt Casters wrote:
    >
    > > As I announced a few weeks ago, we already are in code freeze. New features are not to go in, only bug fixes. In another few weeks we'll probably announce a temporary lock-down of the PDI repository to make sure that we end up with something stable. At that point only critical bug fixes will go in.

    >
    > Thanks Matt - your emailed answered all my questions. Even after the code freeze for everybody (ie, people on this email list) Pentaho will still take some time to squash critical bugs while building up to a "stable release" for GA. A sort of Pentaho only RC 1.5?
    >
    > My original assertion continues to be correct, yes? The entire RC phase is short - you're saying that because Pentaho did a Preview release (which like you mentioned was for prospects/EE custs) the RC period became much shorter?
    >
    > So... in the future, users on this list should regard any "Preview Release" as the actual start of the Release Candidate process (which again, like you said, you announced weeks back with no new features, only bug fixes, etc). Noted.
    >
    > Nick
    > PS - I have "no new features" to go in, btw. So I am an unbiased observer on this process.
    >
    >


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  9. #9
    Nicholas Goodman Guest

    Default Re: Deadline Pentaho PDI 4.0

    First - I'm not trying to suggest that 4.0 won't be a quality release. For all the reasons you mentioned (long Milestone release length, increased Pentaho testing time, etc) I'm betting it will be a good release.

    Second - I'm not suggesting delaying the release arbitrarily - I don't see any reasons to believe that PDI 4.0 is unstable. IMHO, Pentaho should have used the official Release Candidate phrase/wording a few weeks back since that's what it actual was.

    But you are absolutely, 100% correct - most people don't bother to do RC downloads. That's too bad for everyone, Pentaho, customers, kettle-devs, community users, etc....

    Nick

    On May 12, 2010, at 12:49 PM, Matt Casters wrote:

    >
    > To be honest Nick, relatively speaking at least, very few people actually download and use a release candidate.
    > RC1 is currently at 228 downloads. Compared to the +70k of 3.2.0 that's very little indeed.
    >
    > I've written about this problem before. Even if you would do another 5 milestones and release candidates you would still have a large group of your prime target audience you would miss, simply because they prefer not to use RC/Beta software.
    >
    > Fortunately, like I mentioned, things have indeed changed a lot for the better compared to say version 3.0.
    > Not only do we have a larger set of unit tests, we've had the luxury of a larger team to work on 4.0 and to test full time.
    > It's also very fortunate that nothing radical was changed in the core transformation and job engines of Kettle. That leads to a high level of confidence that 4.0 will be 100% backward compatible on the metadata level (your ktr/kjb).
    > Finally, most important features that have been added to 4.0 have been out in a milestone for more than 4-5 months already.
    >
    > In short, I really don't think that needlessly delaying for another month or two is going to buy us a lot, but if we have to we'll do so.
    >
    > Cheers,
    > Matt
    >
    > --
    > Matt Casters <mcasters (AT) pentaho (DOT) org>
    > Chief Data Integration
    > Fonteinstraat 70, 9400 OKEGEM - Belgium - Cell : +32 486 97 29 37
    > Pentaho : The Commercial Open Source Alternative for Business Intelligence
    >
    > On Wednesday 12 May 2010 21:33:26 Nicholas Goodman wrote:
    >> On May 12, 2010, at 11:38 AM, Matt Casters wrote:
    >>
    >>> As I announced a few weeks ago, we already are in code freeze. New features are not to go in, only bug fixes. In another few weeks we'll probably announce a temporary lock-down of the PDI repository to make sure that we end up with something stable. At that point only critical bug fixes will go in.

    >>
    >> Thanks Matt - your emailed answered all my questions. Even after the code freeze for everybody (ie, people on this email list) Pentaho will still take some time to squash critical bugs while building up to a "stable release" for GA. A sort of Pentaho only RC 1.5?
    >>
    >> My original assertion continues to be correct, yes? The entire RC phase is short - you're saying that because Pentaho did a Preview release (which like you mentioned was for prospects/EE custs) the RC period became much shorter?
    >>
    >> So... in the future, users on this list should regard any "Preview Release" as the actual start of the Release Candidate process (which again, like you said, you announced weeks back with no new features, only bug fixes, etc). Noted.
    >>
    >> Nick
    >> PS - I have "no new features" to go in, btw. So I am an unbiased observer on this process.
    >>
    >>

    >
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  10. #10
    Matt Casters Guest

    Default Re: Deadline Pentaho PDI 4.0

    Just to clarify...

    Traditionally at Pentaho, a release candidate is supported and the Preview release is not. A lot of people happened to test the Preview release, but that don't make it RC1. We did change a number of things in the Preview version because of feedback and frankly because it wasn't finished yet.

    > First - I'm not trying to suggest that 4.0 won't be a quality release.
    > Second - I'm not suggesting delaying the release arbitrarily


    I thought that's exactly what you were suggesting in your previous mail. I'm glad I was wrong.

    > That's too bad for everyone, Pentaho, customers, kettle-devs, community users, etc....


    You keep trying to spin a non-story in a negative fashion and I keep saying there isn't a story. Again, getting testers for non-finished software has always been a problem for open source projects.

    http://www.ibridge.be/?p=89

    Traditionally QA is one of the things that are perceived to be the strong point of open source software. However for new releases that is IMO absolutely not the case.

    The bottom line is that Pentaho is not a pure open source company. They did an admirable job with quality assurance and testing. That, my friend, is good for everyone since the results flow almost completely back to the open source code. However you look at it, the bug fix list in JIRA is impressive. http://jira.pentaho.com/browse/PDI (Go to the change log)

    Getting a complete development team to put many man-years of on work into our software is one of the advantages of having a commercial open source company around.

    Matt


    On Thursday 13 May 2010 03:45:59 Nicholas Goodman wrote:
    > First - I'm not trying to suggest that 4.0 won't be a quality release. For all the reasons you mentioned (long Milestone release length, increased Pentaho testing time, etc) I'm betting it will be a good release.
    >
    > Second - I'm not suggesting delaying the release arbitrarily - I don't see any reasons to believe that PDI 4.0 is unstable. IMHO, Pentaho should have used the official Release Candidate phrase/wording a few weeks back since that's what it actual was.
    >
    > But you are absolutely, 100% correct - most people don't bother to do RC downloads. That's too bad for everyone, Pentaho, customers, kettle-devs, community users, etc....
    >
    > Nick
    >
    > On May 12, 2010, at 12:49 PM, Matt Casters wrote:
    >
    > >
    > > To be honest Nick, relatively speaking at least, very few people actually download and use a release candidate.
    > > RC1 is currently at 228 downloads. Compared to the +70k of 3.2.0 that's very little indeed.
    > >
    > > I've written about this problem before. Even if you would do another 5 milestones and release candidates you would still have a large group of your prime target audience you would miss, simply because they prefer not to use RC/Beta software.
    > >
    > > Fortunately, like I mentioned, things have indeed changed a lot for the better compared to say version 3.0.
    > > Not only do we have a larger set of unit tests, we've had the luxury of a larger team to work on 4.0 and to test full time.
    > > It's also very fortunate that nothing radical was changed in the core transformation and job engines of Kettle. That leads to a high level of confidence that 4.0 will be 100% backward compatible on the metadata level (your ktr/kjb).
    > > Finally, most important features that have been added to 4.0 have been out in a milestone for more than 4-5 months already.
    > >
    > > In short, I really don't think that needlessly delaying for another month or two is going to buy us a lot, but if we have to we'll do so.
    > >
    > > Cheers,
    > > Matt
    > >
    > >> On May 12, 2010, at 11:38 AM, Matt Casters wrote:
    > >>
    > >>> As I announced a few weeks ago, we already are in code freeze. New features are not to go in, only bug fixes. In another few weeks we'll probably announce a temporary lock-down of the PDI repository to make sure that we end up with something stable. At that point only critical bug fixes will go in.
    > >>
    > >> Thanks Matt - your emailed answered all my questions. Even after the code freeze for everybody (ie, people on this email list) Pentaho will still take some time to squash critical bugs while building up to a "stable release" for GA. A sort of Pentaho only RC 1.5?
    > >>
    > >> My original assertion continues to be correct, yes? The entire RC phase is short - you're saying that because Pentaho did a Preview release (which like you mentioned was for prospects/EE custs) the RC period became much shorter?
    > >>
    > >> So... in the future, users on this list should regard any "Preview Release" as the actual start of the Release Candidate process (which again, like you said, you announced weeks back with no new features, only bug fixes, etc). Noted.
    > >>
    > >> Nick
    > >> PS - I have "no new features" to go in, btw. So I am an unbiased observer on this process.
    > >>
    > >>

    > >

    >
    >


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  11. #11
    Nicholas Goodman Guest

    Default Re: Deadline Pentaho PDI 4.0

    On May 13, 2010, at 1:04 AM, Matt Casters wrote:

    >> That's too bad for everyone, Pentaho, customers, kettle-devs, community users, etc....

    >
    > You keep trying to spin a non-story in a negative fashion and I keep saying there isn't a story. Again, getting testers for non-finished software has always been a problem for open source projects.


    SImply put, I'm doing no such thing. So far I've said:
    1- PDI RC1 period is short
    2- Pentaho should have been more consistent and communicate more clearly on the PDI release phases (overall arc of PDI 4.0 dev/release)
    3- PDI 4.0 isn't a bad release because of this particular short RC
    4- PDI 4.0 shouldn't be delayed arbitrarily
    5- It's a shame that more people don't download/test RCs for everyones benefit (absolutely AGREEING with you!)

    I think we agree on all of these points (maybe not entirely on 2)! So suggesting that I'm *trying* to spin this negatively is wrong, and a bit offensive actually. I'll follow up with you privately, off list.

    Nick

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